OK, is it just me, or is everybody else's head spinning? One of the more mind blowing episodes, what with the science of time discrepancies, via Dan, and the reveal of Sayid working as an assassin for Ben. It's actually starting to be even more difficult to wrap one's head around all the intricacies exposed so far this season. So let's start with what we know (or at least what we believe we know).
First off, I think we now know the freighter is connected with Widmore. If not Penny, then it must be Charles. We know from The Lost Experience ARG that the Hanso Foundation (funders of the Dharma Initiative) had their offices in the Widmore building. We knew of many connections, but I feel the look exchanged between Daniel Faraday and Frank Lapidus when Desmond asked them about Penny said it all: they were sent by Charles Widmore.
So what of the picture of Des and Penny? Tied into this is the old (dating back to the season 2 "challah") question of how Penny knew to be looking for Desmond in the manner in which she was. It's one thing to track someone down to a stadium in the middle of the night (see Live Together Die Alone), but quite another to hire Portugese scientists in an Antarctic station to look for electromagnetic anomalies (see end of same).
I think Widmore, possibly in alliance with Paik, has had an interest in the island for a long time. I figure Charles either learned something from Penny, or she learned something from him, but I don't believe they both know about the other one. I suspect Charles stole the picture from Penny, in order to win Desmond's, and therefore the Losties', trust. I'm guessing Penny may have secretly acquired knowledge from her father, but doesn't know about the freighter.
What else do we know after this awesome epi? We know Sayid is one of the O6. We also know Ben gets off the island, but since he is not an Oceanic passenger, he cannot be one of the O6. Furthermore, we learn that he has likely been travelling off the isalnd for quite some time, with aliases, passports, and foreign currency to help him. Was this globetrotting curtailed after the Purpling? Why didn't he get surgery in the real world? Most importantly, who is the enemy he is fighting, the representatives of which he has coerced Sayid into assassinating?
I will admit, I did not call Ben as Sayid's boss, but neither was I surprised. I thought, "who else?" But the question is who was at the other end of Elsa's phone? Was it Abaddon? Was it Widmore? If it was the former, is Abaddon working for Widmore? As of now, I'm prepared to say that Widmore is behind the anti-Ben faction, probably because of the Purge, and that Abaddon works for him.
I think it's fairly certain that the F4 have more than Ben on their minds. As I mentioned in a previous post, this is not a commando team, it's a scientific team. Charlotte's comment regarding all the work she has to do further illuminates this idea. I'm going to posit that Widmore wants to reestablish a Dharma type organization, and that is really the ultimate goal of the team. Ben has to be held accountable for the Purge, but I also suspect they are aware of his off-island activities (they have a picture), and I'm guessing that whatever those activities have been, they probably centered on keeping the island safe. That seems like it has always been Ben's number one motivator (although I'm not sure how the fertility thing fits in, other than simple population sustainability).
We also learned something important about time and the island, although the non-physicists among us are getting headaches thinking about it. Apparently, there is a time discrepancy. The clues have indicated this for a long time; a character reading Hawking's A Brief History of Time, the phrase "Lost Time" derived anagrammatically from Mittelos Bioscience, etc. But now we have hard evidence, courtesy of Daniel Faraday: a thirty-one minute discrepancy with the rocket fired from the freighter. Of course, Dan knows more about what this means than we do, but we do know he thinks it is "not good". We also know it has something to do with the bearing by which you get to and leave the island. I'll admit I don't understand this, but at least now we have a character who does.
Questions include: does this explain Walt's growth spurt? Does it explain Richard Alpert's apparent immortality? And does it affect the island's obscurity from the rest of the world, and if so, how? Hopefully, TPTB will throw us some more bones in coming weeks, although we can be certain more questions will be raised at the same time, and we wouldn't have it any other way!
11 comments:
I agree, it is getting more complicated, and all the info we have gotten so far this season just deepens the mysteries we were already trying to figure out.
First off, do we have any reason to believe or assume that it is a freighter out there? I mean, yes, most likely there is a boat of some kind, but a freighter? Those carry freight. Not teams of scientists, probably not helicopters, certainly not search and rescue teams. Something else to think about. And what was Naomi? She's no scientist. Why was she in charge of this team? She spoke as if she was some sort of military personnel. And why did she give the code to George before she died? She seemed to have decided to trust Kate. And since her "ghost" seems to have confirmed Kate's story, I see no reason for the subterfuge. But if she lied there, she could have lied about the freighter too. One odd thing is that Desmond didn't seem to ever ask her about why she had his picture. Too late now.
Charles Widmore does seem to be the most likely person behind the "freighter" team. But why would he give them the picture of Desmond? Wouldn't he have to assume that Desmond is dead, lost at sea? For that matter, why should Penny think him alive? Why be looking for anomalies? He went on a flippin' race around the world!! Penny AND Charles must know more than we realize. (Unrelated, but just thought of this: Is it weird that Desmond and Juliet have both been on the island for three years?) Widmore may have an interest in Dharma and the island, but why? What is Widmore's business again? And is there a reason to assume at this point that Paik is involved? Sure, he's rich, but otherwise, we have no reason to include him in this yet. He's rich, but he's in the automotive industry, and he's a gangster on the side. I suppose he could be on some Illuminati board of trustees, but so far, no evidence to support this theory. I guess this is us getting ahead of ourselves because we want to link everyone we can. (what's a "challah?")
Ben found out about his tumor the DAY that Jack fell from the sky. Couple that with his belief in the healing powers of the island and you have your answer as to why he didn't seek surgery off-island.
We don't know that the people Sayid was killing have anything to do with Widmore or whoever is behind the Freighties. Sure, they could. But, they could also just be bad people who need to be killed for whatever reason. Perhaps they are on Jacob's death list, people who are killing the planet or going to ruin society in the future. Think Miles Dyson in T2. (Funny, "The Purpling.")
As for who was on the phone, don't forget about "R.C." Elsa had a similar bracelet to what Sayid found on Naomi. "R.C." seems to me to be the obvious ringleader, perhaps above all others such as Abaddon and Widmore. He could be the "anti-Jacob."
I don't think Widmore is looking to re-establish Dharma or anything like it. He didn't seem like such a humanitarian to me. What are the goals of the team, and whoever backs them? Not sure yet. But let's look at the team. Hand-picked. An anthropologist, a physicist, and a psychic. (Lapidus is just a good pilot, I don't see him being relevant beyond that. Getting to the island is obviously a challenge.) So, someone knows about the unique electromagnetic, spatial, and time properties of the island. They know about the supernatural elements (Jacob, Whisper People, etc.). Why an anthropologist? There's obviously more to it than we even know. But she knows about Dharma, and perhaps has been there before, so that is a great reason to have her on the team.
We do know that there is a time discrepancy between the island and the real world; it would seem time is moving more slowly on the island. Maybe. Is the island thirty-one minutes behind the real world, is time moving faster off-island than on, or is there just a fluctuation in time between the island and the real world? Whatever it is, I don't think Dan told Lapidus to stay on his original bearing because of the time variant. Time alone wouldn't seem to be a factor in the journey, unless the direction you take affects WHEN you arrive back in the real world. Heh. I get new ideas as I write, and it just continues to prove how mind-blowing this show is. I was going to say how if time was moving more slowly on the island, Richard Alpert should actually be OLDER than he is, not staying the same age. Because whenever he would leave the island, he would be aging at a faster rate. I'll be really interested to see how the science gets explained eventually, because lots of crazy things are going on. How can they get a live feed to the real world, like Florida when Juliet sees her sister and niece, if there is a such a time fluctuation between the island and the rest of the world? It boggles one's mind. And like you say, we wouldn't have it any other way!
Another comment about this episode's flash-forward: not sure if anyone else has thought about it, but I was thinking the time-frame of this one has to be closer to Jack's flash-forward in TTLG. Not sure yet if it's before or after, but it would seem Sayid would have to be thoroughly convinced to start working for Ben. It wouldn't happen soon after the rescue. Does Sayid look for Nadia? He knows she is in LA, doesn't he?
One thing is for sure: Jack and Kate are out of the loop in the future. Ben and Sayid are clearly still engaged in island business, but Kate and Jack are just living their normal lives.
And what of Hurley? Pretty soon after the rescue, Hurley was contacted by Charlie's ghost. How long does he stay in the nuthatch? Does he continue to get visitations, or does it stop? Will Libby's ghost visit him? Does he leave, and try to get back to the island also?
Back to Sayid: why is the guy he kills on the golf course so scared once he hears Sayid is one of the Oceanic 6? He must know that they were on the island. He must know that Sayid is killing people for Ben. He must have some pretty intimate knowledge of what's going on. And does Sayid? At this point, has Ben told him more of what's at stake?
More to chew on. I have to stop this now.
xocc said: And what was Naomi? She's no scientist. Why was she in charge of this team? She spoke as if she was some sort of military personnel. And why did she give the code to George before she died? She seemed to have decided to trust Kate. And since her "ghost" seems to have confirmed Kate's story, I see no reason for the subterfuge. But if she lied there, she could have lied about the freighter too.
I think you answered your own question. She's military. She expressed concern that she was the only one with that kind of experience. Given the likely knowledge possessed by whomever is behind the F4,it seems like one military person is the least one would want. This also explains the code: she was covering her bases.
xocc said: Charles Widmore does seem to be the most likely person behind the "freighter" team. But why would he give them the picture of Desmond? Wouldn't he have to assume that Desmond is dead, lost at sea? For that matter, why should Penny think him alive?
I assume he gave then the picture to gain their trust.
xocc said: And is there a reason to assume at this point that Paik is involved?
In the translation of the interaction between Paik and his subordinate in D.O.C. there is a Paik/Hanso connection revealed.
xocc said: what's a "challah?"
Code words for the super-secret season finale reveals include "bagel" (Desmond in the hatch), "challah" (Penny and the Antarctic station), and "Snake in the Mailbox" (the first Flash Forward).
xocc said: Ben found out about his tumor the DAY that Jack fell from the sky. Couple that with his belief in the healing powers of the island and you have your answer as to why he didn't seek surgery off-island.
Why didn't I think of that?
xocc said: As for who was on the phone, don't forget about "R.C."
Could the "R" stand for Regina"?
xocc said: I don't think Widmore is looking to re-establish Dharma or anything like it. He didn't seem like such a humanitarian to me.
Who said the DI were humanitarians?
xocc said: Why an anthropologist?
The three-toed statue? The temple?
xocc said: Time alone wouldn't seem to be a factor in the journey, unless the direction you take affects WHEN you arrive back in the real world.
This is exactly what I'm thinking.
xocc said: I'll be really interested to see how the science gets explained eventually, because lots of crazy things are going on.
Amen to that!
xocc said: He knows she is in LA, doesn't he?
How do we (and he) know that again?
xocc said: Back to Sayid: why is the guy he kills on the golf course so scared once he hears Sayid is one of the Oceanic 6? He must know that they were on the island.
And he knows someone's been offing people like him.
First of all, the statue had FOUR toes, not three. It should have five, get it? It's not a statue of Homer Simpson!
The anthropologist thing is why I'm thinking they're not there to simply apprehend Ben. Remains of an ancient civilization is hardly cause to bring along an anthropologist on a mission like that.
What exactly was said between Paik and his minion? In D.O.C.?
Seems too simple, that Widmore wants to gain their trust, and if so, why would they need that picture? Only Desmond knows Penny. That wouldn't help much with the other survivors. Why not get pictures of all their loved ones as proof? And why would survivors NEED any proof? Someone's here saying they're gonna get me off the island, 'nuff said! Abaddon was certain there WERE no survivors anyway.
I doubt the R.C. is Regina. She seems like a secretary. Of course we don't know too much. But I think R.C. is the Big Bad.
We have also been forgetting about The Maxwell Group. It would seem that if Widmore and Paik are involved, they are only a part of this much larger conglomerate.
The DI wasn't necessarily humanitarian, but they just seemed to be hippies doing advanced research. If they were evil, then that makes The Hostiles the good guys. Which is entirely possible. Kind of. Ah, it just doesn't seem so.
The people who coerced Sayid into betraying his terrorist friend told him Nadia was in LA and that they knew where to find her. They said if he did what they asked they would lead him to her. That's why he was headed to LA.
Now the real reason I popped back in here: I want to address the end of the episode. The popular assumption is that Ben is blackmailing Sayid into doing what he is doing to protect his friends, assumedly the Losties who remained behind. I do not believe this is the case. It's a quick and easy assumption to make, but Sayid didn't seem terribly pissed at Ben. I think Ben is telling Sayid the truth, whatever it might be, and that Sayid believes him and is working toward a goal alongside Ben. He knows they need to do what they are doing to save his friends, and possibly to get back to the island. It's possible that Ben can't even get back yet on his own; he may have been forcibly removed from the island by the F4 or whoever they are working for.
I'm not sure about Sayid and what he thinks of Ben and his plan. I do know that he appeared to wash his hand with snow after talking to Ben on the cell phone. It's possible Sayid is giving Ben the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think he's totally sold. Although he is willing to kill a woman he apparently has feelings for, so maybe he does believe in Ben. There is a theory out there that Sayid has been working for Ben since before the crash. This is predicated in a large part on Sayid's encounter with Kelvin in Iraq. Only problem is, I don't know of any evidence connecting Kelvin to Ben.
Geez, I just cannot get behind wild theories like that. Ben never met Sayid before the island. Kelvin meeting Sayid in Iraq is no different than Jack meeting Desmond at the stadium. It was just their paths crossing in the past, and then again later.
I was just listening to Jay and Jack's last few podcasts, regarding The Economist, and I just want to reiterate something, just to be clear. I believe that the Losties who remained behind after the O6 were rescued are in some sort of jeopardy, and I think the danger is being caused by whoever is behind the F4. Furthermore, I think that Ben knows who is responsible, and is having Sayid kill all the people involved in the upper echelons of whatever group it is, because the more of them that die, the less our Losties will be in danger. It's a vague notion, kinda, but also clear enough to be different from the theories where people think Ben is holding them hostage or whatever, in order to get Sayid to do what he is doing. I wouldn't even be surprised if it turns out Sayid is the one who went to Ben, asking for help in getting them out of danger. I see Ben and perhaps Locke as the Professor Xavier and Magneto of the Island. Both working toward the same goal, although using different methods, one more ruthless than the other. It's not the exact same kind of relationship, but there are similarities.
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I totally agree; I have always taken Ben at his word when he says the Freighter Folk are bad news. I don't see him holding them hostage himself (aside from his record...)
The X-Men tie-in is interesting, especially in light of the Freighter Four/Fantastic Four connections. I do wonder why Ben and Locke aren't working together. I think it's interesting that Locke doesn't seem to be concerned with people. "I am responsible for the well being of this island". "This is not a democracy". Kicking Kate out. The (egg) grenade in Miles' mouth.
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Ben and Locke SHOULD be working together, but perhaps Locke is a bit pissed about being shot. I can't blame him. And I guess for the sake of the audience, they can't really have them get too intimate. Ben has to remain a secretive A-hole.
Of course Locke is pissed about getting shot. I wonder though, was Ben lying back in S2 when he said he was coming for Locke? That he was one of the good ones? Because now he seems to delight in the fact that Locke can't find the cabin and doesn't know what to do. Not to mention of course, shooting him in the first place.
I believe that Ben was telling the truth when he said he was coming for Locke. That jibes well with them inviting Locke to come along when they abandoned The Barracks. His line to The Others, "He's not who we thought he was," makes sense too, in that context. They did believe him to be a good one, Ben just never expected Locke to actually hear Jacob.
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